Dale worries about the viability of his commune and asks writer and podcaster, Avery Trufelman for some much needed perspective. The host of The Cut podcast, along with the limited-run audio series Nice Try! and Articles of Interest, Avery knows a lot about human impulses and the struggle for utopian societies. Dale appreciates Avery’s approach of examining things from a micro and a macro level, while also doggedly going after the thingness of a thing. The two also wax nostalgic for the hills, fog and magic of a place called San Francisco, where one always knows where to plug in a dying laptop. Plus if Dale sounds flustered, blame the radiator.